vets74 / The Daily Kos – 2008-10-06 22:15:24

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/21/111846/996/640/605486

McCain One of the Two Dozen Weakest POWs.
Collaboration Charge Resurfaces

( Septmber 21, 2008) — The major claim that the G.O.P. makes for presidential candidate John McCain is that he “proved himself” by surviving torture in Hanoi. Obama, not exactly. This 5 1/2-year ordeal is presented as the root and core of a great leader. The Maverick is marketed for super-human endurance and courage.

Red State domination is based on this super-human image.

Reality differs:

• During Korea, the American POWs were tortured, including daily indoctrination session. 1/3 collaborated, 2/3 withstood it successfully.

• During Vietnam, the American POWs were mistreated and some were tortured. Indoctrination was rare because the Vietnamese lacked language skills. Some two dozen Vietnam POWs collaborated.

So, why take McCain seriously ? Fact is, he was one of the weakest two dozen of the Vietnam POWs.

After being periodically slapped around for “three or four days,” …McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, “O.K., I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”

— U.S. News and World Report, 1973, written by John McCain

There’s also Russian interrogation and a radio interview for Castro’s Cuba. Details and links BTF:

Quite simply, McCain made some number of audio propaganda tapes for the Vietnamese. We have trascripts from interviews with foreign journalists.

The “32 tapes” frequently cited here at DKOS is not substantiated.
From Think3:

The “32” number seems to begin with Tracy Usry in 1992. His comment wasn’t part of the select committee testimony, but was made outside chambers. He has been quoted ad infinitum as saying “information shows” that McCain made 32 films or recordings, but to my knowledge Usry never showed his information. No count of “propaganda” performances by McCain, voluntary or involuntary, comes close to this number.

C.I.A. (The Company) had an operation that recorded all of these anti-American propaganda programs. This was the Foreign Broadcast Information Service (FBIS).

Surely, transcripts of these programs could be published. Declassification should be a Top Priority for the Democratic Party. The Democrats are running against this man, right ? Why protect him ?

Google Answers: Why did John McCain make 31 propaganda tapes for the enemy…

Think3 does a first rate debgging op on this 31 or 32 tape factoid.

The Number 32: The McCain “Propaganda Tape” Mystery

Testimony and The Memoirs of former Vietnam People’s Army Colonel Bui Tin are also explosive. McCain is contradicted repeatedly. Similarly, the Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs finds McCain contradicted by other POWs and by himself (!) on the question of whether Russians had access to the Hanoi Hilton POWs:

In November 1991, when Tracy Usry, the former chief investigator of the Minority Staff of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, testified before the Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, he revealed that the Soviets interrogated U.S. prisoners of war in Vietnam. Sen. McCain became outraged, interrupting Usry several times, arguing that “none of the returned U.S. prisoners of war released by Vietnam were ever interrogated by the Soviets.”

Yet, former U.S. POW Laird Gutterson, who was held with McCain, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that McCain told him the Soviets were involved when McCain needed special medical attention as a result of his shootdown in 1967.

Col. Bui Tin, a former Senior Colonel in the North Vietnamese Army, testified in 1991 that the Soviets did interrogate American prisoners of War. So why is McCain trying to cover this up ?

Anyway, McCain was housed for years at The Plantation. The easiest/softest of the prisoner units. We know that the commies liked him.

LET’S TRY JUDGING McCAIN ON WHAT HE DID. JUST HOW POPULAR IS FIDEL CASTRO IN SOUTH FLORIDA ???
McCain performing for Cuban agitprop is among the most obvious.

Transcripts from RADIO CUBA 11-9-1967 and others.

Does this sound like someone being tortured ? And he was using Spanish to assist the interviewer where he felt he could be more useful:

Dr. Fernando Barral for Cuban media, January 24, 1970
There’s way too much detail for this to be concocted.

The pilot interviewed is John Sidney McCain, son and grandson of American Navy Admirals. His father, as the Yankee prisoner declared, is higher ranking than General Abrams, who commands the Yankee aggressor troops in South Vietnam; despite this, Johnson gave orders directly to Abrams, passing over McCain’s father, who has a long history of services of aggression in Korea, among other imperialist merits. As is seen, Lt Commander John Sidney has a very good name….

Following are the notes from Dr. Barral’s interview with the Yankee Pilot:

(Could you tell me your name, serial number, and rank?)

“My name is John Sidney McCain and I am a lieutenant commander in the U.S. Navy — serial No 624787. I understand and speak some Spanish. I studied it in school and I have been in Spain several times. On one of those occasions I visited the Navy Academy and met Prince Carlos….”

In the course of the interview, on various occasions he showed that knowledge of the language, saying some words, dates, and so forth in Spanish, or (using it) when he thought the interpreter was seeking the corresponding French word.

Naturally, from the very beginning this established a more direct communication between us, and more than one question or my response was made directly in Spanish.

(Immediately afterward, I asked him about the date and circumstances of his capture.)

“On 26 October 1967 I was overflying Hanoi in an A4E plane based on the carrier Oriskany when my plane was hit by a ground-to-air missile. I bailed out, colliding in the air with the remains of the plane, and I landed in one of the lakes in the center of Hanoi, in the middle of the water. On landing I tried to get free of my parachute, but could not move, and did not realize why I could not move my arms or legs, but it was because of the injuries.”

(Injuries?)

“Yes, as a result of colliding with the remains of the plane, I fractured my right leg at the knee, and both arms, the right one in three places. Moreover, I dislocated both shoulders.” …

(What happened next? That is, what was the capture itself like?)

“Well, many people gathered around since it was the center of Hanoi and at midday.”

(Soldiers, militiamen, or civilians?)

“I could not determine exactly, because they had removed their clothing in order to take me out of the water.”

(Well, go on.)

“From there, they took me to a military hospital in Hanoi, a large hospital where they operated on me and attended to the multiple fractures. I understand I received more than a liter of blood….”

(Were you the object of any physical or moral violence?)

“No, although at the time of capture I could sense the people’s hate or indignation, there were no insults or violence of any type. On the contrary, you have seen how I am recovering from my injuries.”

(But were you not afraid of being the object of violent treatment if you were captured…?)

“Actually, I never thought I would become a prisoner; therefore those fears never came up.”

(Did you never think of the possibility of being captured?)

“No. I was traveling at high altitude. I felt completely safe in the plane.. I am considered one of the best pilots….”
…

(?? What made you join the U.S. Navy? [difficult to read])

“[There was a] family reason since I have many relatives in that branch of service. In particular, my grandfather was [difficult to read] -nding in World War II; he was one of those who [saw] the Japanese sign the act of surrender, and a Naval destroyer bears his name. And my father is also an Admiral; he is Chief of the Pacific Command of the U.S. Armed Forces. Actually, it is a matter of military tradition.

Once of my forebears was a colonel in Washington’s independence forces. Another was a general in the war of secession. Thus it was natural for me to follow a military career. Of course my father was not always an admiral; during World War II he was a commander of a submarine. He has been in the Navy since 1927 and has been an admiral since 1965. He holds the highest rank in the Navy. If I had not been downed, I would have become an Admiral at an earlier age than my father. Theoretically, General Abrams is his subordinate….”

(Theoretically?)

“Yes, although in practice, because of the importance of this war, Gen. Creighton Abrams receives his orders directly from Washington.”

(I do not understand this about “in theory and in practice.” I thought that in military life everything is standardized in an inflexible manner….)

“Well, look, in fact Abrams is his subordinate but since the Tet offensive of 1968 in view of the gravity of the situation, Abrams instead of asking for instructions from my father, who is in Honolulu, so that he in turn would ask for them from Washington, went directly to Washington for them because the war is here in Vietnam and my father also has Okinawa, Korea, and so forth under his command. That is why, since the war is so important, he receives his instructions directly from Washington. It is a political problem also, not only military.”

(Well, let us leave these things about political and military aside. They are too complex. At any rate I do not believe that your father likes the situation very much; that his subordinates receive orders directly from above.)
…

“Look, my father is a very intelligent person, but… when the bombings of the north began, Johnson asked Abrams’ opinion, not my father’s because Abrams [is] in Saigon, in the war….”

“Now I am going to speak about my wife,” he says spontaneously, “she is not in the armed forces,” he added with a certain humor. “I saw her the last time in August of 1967. At that time I was on the aircraft carrier Forrestal when I fire broke out wich damaged it heavily and it had to be sent for repairs to the United States. At that time I miraculously escaped with my life because I was in my airplane and the two pilots on my left and the two on my right were killed.”

(How did that happen?)

“A plane caught fire and one of its rockets went off. This in turn caused other explosions. There were 135 deaths, almost all the airplanes were destroyed and the ship was seriously damaged. As a result of the fire I became famous on TV.”

(As one who miraculously escaped death, no?)

“Yes, but in addition I was able to see my family and stay there nearly a month. I then returned this time to the aircraft carrier Oriskany and 1 month later I was shot down.”

(You said that you were going to talk to me about your wife bout you continue on the subject of the war….)

… “She is very pretty. Before marrying me she was a model for magazines and on TV. We have a 3-year-old girl. When I saw her she was still a baby. She also has two children from a former marriage. She now returned to work as a model on TV.”

(How did you find out?)

“I had a letter from her after I became a prisoner.”

(??)

“Yes they authorized me to recieve a letter and presents on Christmas Eve and I was able to send greeting cards.”

(Would you like me to relay a message for you?)

“If you would be so kind. Tell her I am well, that I wish her happiness, and not to worry about me.”

(The address!)

“Her namy is Carol McCain, Mrs. Carol McCain. She lives in….”

[McCain has to write her address with his left hand because the Spanish speaking interviewer can’t understand… 553 Patio Lane, Orange Park, Florida, USA]

(What schooling did you have?)

I went to the Naval Academy. I took two university majors, electrical engineering and naval architecture. The courses were very difficult; 1,200 of us began and only 400 graduated. Discipline was very strict also. I was also in the Spanish Naval Academy. It was there that I met Prince Carlos, as I said before. When I finished I had two choices; to be a naval officer or a pilot.. I chose to be a pilot. I had to study another year and a half and I graduated in 1958. I trained intensively. I flew many hours in training to become a jet pilot.”

(Many?)

“Yes, 4,000. They really demand 200 but I flew 4,000 hours.”

(??)

“I wanted to become a test pilot. It is fascinating to test new models.”

(At any rate the difference between 200 and 4,000 appears to be great.)

“Well, look, it was because I wanted to be an astronaut. That is why I also engage in a great deal of sports: boxing wrestling, swimming, camping, and so forth.”

(And what happened?)

“I had to come to Vietnam.”

(What is your religion?)

“I am a Protestant.”

(Being in captivity, has your faith increased? Do you have hopes for the future?)

“My beliefs have always been more or less the same intensity. As long as the war lasts I do not have much hope for the future.”

Nice of P.O.W. this McCain fellah, helpin’ out Castro.
Poll

John McCain was one of two dozen POWs who collaborated during the Vietnam War
1. It seems bizarre that the Republicans are pushing one of the two-dozen weakest of the Vietnam POWs.
12% 7 votes
2. The issue of Russians interrogating American POWs gets another odd McCain lie. He denies that any of it happened.
1% 1 votes
3. McCain did an interview for Castro’s Cuba. It shows no duress. Cookies and tea, anyone ?
1% 1 votes
4. All of the above. McCain’s Super-POW Myth is as silly as Sarah Palin being a pit bull.
63% 37 votes
5. The Hero is a Republican. All bow down. Make a Golden Idol. Worship Him.
13% 8 votes
6. No-no. We’re dittohead Lush Rimbaugh suckas. Moose-shit-fer-brains. Whatever.
6% 4 votes

| 58 votes | Vote | Results