RT News & Global Economic Analysis Blogspot & BBC & Global Research & Zero Hedge.com – 2014-08-01 01:47:40
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/
Ukrainian SU-25 Fighter Detected in Close Approach to MH17 before Crash — Moscow
RT News
(July 21, 2014) — The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe. Kiev must explain why the military jet was tracking the passenger airplane, the Russian Defense Ministry said.
“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
At the moment of the MH17 crash an American satellite was flying over the area of eastern Ukraine, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry. It urged the US to publish the space photos and data captured by it.
In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk — a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.
Evidence of Military Planes Shadowing MH17 Mounts
Mike “Mish” Shedlock / Global Economic Analysis Blogspot
On July 23 the BBC deleted a video report from correspondent Olga Ivishina regarding the crash of MH17. This has caused quite a stir in the blogosphere because the deleted video contained eyewitness reports of military aircraft flying on the same day, shadowing MH17.
Here is the deleted video from cache:
КатаÑтрофа рейÑа MH17 Би би Ñи в поиÑках Бука 23 07 2014, LQ
BBC’s Initial Response
I found dozens of references to the removal, but to find BBC’s reason for removing the video, I had to search the BBC website. It’s in Russian. Jan Leder, managing editor of Russian BBC Service explains Why Bi-bi-si Material Removed From Site.
Video Reposted
My initial reaction was that Leder’s response was disingenuous. However, the BBC has since re-posted the video. Reader Jacob Dreizin, a US citizen who speaks Russian and reads Ukrainian, went over the original and now re-posted videos and it appears the BBC was telling the truth all along.
From Dreizin
Although it’s not entirely clear, the managing editor says that the intent from the get-go was to fix the material and put it back up as soon as possible. I have reviewed the original version side-by-side with the new one. And I can see what she’s talking about. The new video still has all the eyewitness ladies that everyone has focused on.
The new video removed a somewhat irrelevant lecture from the VItalii Naida, the Ukrainian counterintelligence chief. Instead, it has a Ukrainian official claiming that no combat flights take place over rebel areas, followed by a local resident making a mockery of that claim.
It also has a segment where a BBC aviation expert is quoted as giving his rebuttal to a rebel’s claim that Ukrainian warplanes have used civilian flights as cover. The expert says that while he can’t rule it out, it seems very unlikely to him, for various technical reasons. However, I don’t think he quite understands precisely what the interviewees are saying.
All in all, there’s no BBC scandal here. But if you just want to focus strictly on what the eyewitness ladies said I’ve improved it a bit. Here goes…
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. This is how it [the plane] tore apart. And it [the remains of the plane] flew off to the sides [gesturing with hands in two opposite directions].
Eyewitness #2: And nearby there was one other airplane, a military one, everyone saw.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was going lower, because it could be seen. It was going below the passenger plane.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. Then this plane turned around sharply like this [gesturing with her finger], changed trajectory, and flew in that direction [showing the direction with her hand].
Mounting Evidence
1. Credible eyewitnesses saw multiple planes.
2. Russia claims radar picked up multiple planes
3. Russia claims Ukrainian Buks in Eastern Ukraine
4. Plane moved from original flight path in mysterious circumstances
Russia gave a detailed report on numbers 2 and 3 (See: Russia Claims Photos of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles in East, Radar Proof of Warplanes in MH17 Vicinity. See story below.)
Ukraine denies all of the above, and of course the rebels deny having Buks. It’s quite possible, and in fact likely, that both sides are lying about multiple things. That said, Russia has at least come out with some of its evidence. The US and Ukraine have little to offer but hype and reports that appear fake, coupled with over-reliance social media.
Deleted BBC Report. “Ukrainian Fighter Jet Shot Down MHI7,” Donetsk Eyewitnesses
Global Research
The original BBC Video Report was published by BBC Russian Service on July 23, 2014. In a bitter irony, The BBC is censoring its own news productions. Why did BBC delete this report by Olga Ivshina?
Is it because the BBC team was unable to find any evidence that a rocket was launched in the area that the Ukrainian Security Service (“SBU”) alleges to be the place from which the Novorossiya Militia launched a “BUK” missile?
Or is it because every eyewitness interviewed by the BBC team specifically indicated the presence of a Ukrainian military aircraft right beside the Malaysian Airlines Boeing MH17 at the time that it was shot down?
Or is it because of eyewitness accounts confirming that the Ukrainian air force regularly used civilian aircraft flying over Novorossiya as human shields to protect its military aircraft conducting strikes against the civilian population from the Militia’s anti-aircraft units?
Highlights of Witness statements (see complete transcript below)
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].
Video: The Catastrophe of #MH17:
BBC in the Search of the “BUK”
Introductory Paragraphs to the BBC Video Report
by slavyangrad.wordpress.com
Intro of BBC Report
(For Full Transcript see below)
The “black boxes” of the crashed Malaysian Boeing have finally been transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion. The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from Russia.
The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile.
BBC reporter Olga Ivshina and producer Oksana Vozhdayeva decided to find the place from which the missile was allegedly launched.
Original BBC Video Report:
Preserved by Google Web-cache
Transcript of the BBC Video Report
DPR Representative: Here it is.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The black boxes from the crashed Boeing are finally being transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from the direction of Russia.
Vitaliy Naida, Department of Counterintelligence of SBU [Ukrainian Security Service]: This was a BUK M1 system from which the aircraft was shot down. It came to Ukraine early in the morning on the 17th of July. It was delivered by a tow truck to the city of Donetsk. After that, it was redeployed from Donetsk, as part of a column of military equipment, to the area of the city of Torez, to the area of Snezhnoye, to the area of Pervomaisk.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile. We attempted to verify these photographs and information at the location.
One of the photographs showed a landscape not far from the city of Torez, on which smoke could be seen coming from the presumed location of the missile’s launch. We attempted to find this location, and it appears that we were successful.
We are now on the outskirts of the city of Torez. Behind me, approximately five kilometres away, is the city of Snezhnoye. And the landscape here matches the landscape that we can see on the photograph published by the Ukrainian Security Service.
To find the place from which the smoke was allegedly coming from, we adopted as markers these three poplars and the group of trees. Presumably, this is the place that can be seen on the photograph published by the SBU. And here are our markers: the three solitary poplars and the small group of trees in the distance.
The smoke that can be seen on the photograph came from somewhere over there [pointing behind her], behind my back. The SBU believes that this is a trace coming from the launch of a “BUK” missile.
However, it must be noted that there are here, approximately in the same place, the Saur-Mogila memorial, near which the fighting continues almost unabated, and a coalmine. It turns out that the smoke with the same degree of probability could have been coming from any of these locations.
Having circled around the nearby fields, we were unable to find any traces of a missile launch. Nor did the local inhabitants that we encountered see any “BUK” either.
At the ruins of an apartment building in the city of Snezhnoye, the topic of the jet fighters that may have been escorting civilian aircraft comes up again. A bomb dropped from above took away the lives of eleven civilians here.
Sergey Godovanets, Commander of the Militia of the city of Snezhnoye: They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us — but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above us. And they hide [behind them]. [The experience in] Slavyansk had demonstrated that they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The commander of the local militia emphasizes that they have no weaponry capable of shooting down a jet fighter [flying] at a significant height. However, he says that if such weaponry were to appear, they would have tried to.
Sergey Godovanets: If we know that it is not a civilian aircraft, but a military one, then — yes.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: So, could the Boeing have been shot down by the militias that had mistaken it for a military aircraft? There is as yet no unequivocal confirmation of either this or any other version [of what took place]. The international experts are just beginning their work with the information obtained from the crashed airliner. It now appears that it is difficult to overstate the importance of this investigation. Olga Ivshina, BBC.
Translation by: Valentina Lisitsa
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com
Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine
Deploying BUK Missiles In East,
Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity
Tyler Durden / Zero Hedge.com
[Note: Click on Zero Hedge link to see videos and photos.]
(July 21, 2014) — Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US ‘snap judgment’) to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:
• RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
• RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
• RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17
Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.
The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:
Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).
Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:
• RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES’ POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK – RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY — Interfax
•
The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff’s Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.
“These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation,” he said.
Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:
• RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK
•
And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:
Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/
As RT reports,
“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
And asks for US proof of their accusations:
• RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED… which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible – so why hasn’t the US explained this or shown it?
• RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
• RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
• DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE “OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS”
And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to ‘prove’ the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.
Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk — a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe — 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk,” the Kartapolov said.
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
* * *
Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)
The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.
In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.
1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?
2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly – why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?
3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?
4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?
5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?
6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the “anti-terrorist operation zone”?
7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?
8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine “Boeing” was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?
9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers “Boeing” and Ukrainian radar data?
10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.
Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.
* * *
Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of “finger pointer”) in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the “emotional appeals” propaganda. We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17’s black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.
Posted in accordance with Title 17, Section 107, US Code, for noncommercial, educational purposes.
