Scott Horton on How Washington
Started the New Cold War
Talk World Radio
(January 27, 2025) — This week on Talk World Radio we welcome back Scott Horton, whose new book is called PROVOKED: How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine.
Scott Horton is director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of Antiwar.com, host of Antiwar Radio on Pacifica, 90.7 FM KPFK in Los Angeles, California and podcasts the Scott Horton Show from ScottHorton.org. His books include Enough Already: Time to End the War on Terrorism, and Fool’s Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan.
Scott Horton’s Quincy Institute
Interview about US Foreign Policy
Don Smith / ThinkerFeeler
(January 21, 2025) — Scott Horton is director of the Libertarian Institute and the editor of antiwar.com. Some of the stuff he says is conservative (maybe even MAGA) propaganda, perhaps, but I mostly agree with his analysis of US foreign policy. I need to buy his book, Provoked: How Washington Started the New Cold War With Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine . If you’ve read it, please send your comments
Horton starts by telling the history of the US allying with Shiite Muslim (terrorist) groups to attack Afghanistan, Serba, and Syria. From Jimmy Carter to Biden similar policies were pursued. Provoke a conflict and use the reaction to justify military intervention.
They Set up and fund astroturf opposition groups in a country we want to overthrow. Claim an election was rigged.
Scooter Libby and others wrote Defense Planning Guidance, which was leaked to the NY Times. As google AI says: “Defense Planning Guidance” associated with Libby refers to a significant document outlining the US military strategy during the post-Cold War era, primarily drafted by Lewis “Scooter” Libby while serving as a top aide to then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, which outlined a vision for American military dominance globally, sometimes criticized for its aggressive and unilateralist approach.
What he says basically is: “At the end of the Cold War we must pre-empty any real argument for coming home. We have to find reasons to stay.” In order to maintain dominance in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe. They also proposed NATO expansion into eastern Europe. An alleged Benevolent Global Empire.
The neocons helped forge the foreign policy consensus. Project for a New American Century. Rebuilding America’s Defenses. But there were a lot of people who opposed expanding NATO, starting with Rand Paul, Ted Carpenter, and Pat Buchannan, who said Come Home, America First! “But it wasn’t just them. There were establishment people too. As Madeleine Albright reported in her memoir, two thirds (a super-majority) of the Council on Foreign Relations opposed NATO expansion.”
Susan Eisenhower, granddaughter of President Eisenhower, published an open letter with 70 highest level military commanders (3 and 4 star generals and admirals) and foreign service officers, including George Kennan and Paul Nitze and Robert McManara, leading former Cold War leaders, “Now that that’s over, let’s not create a new crisis where we just defused one.” In 1998, as reported in the NY Times, George Kennan told Paul Friedman “exactly what’s gonna happen.
All the NATO expanders who are telling us, ‘Don’t worry about it. It won’t be a problem. The Russians won’t do anything.” When the Russians do react, as I’m predicting they will, then all these same people will say, ‘See? That’s why we need NATO: to defend Europe against an aggressive Russia ‘.”
Horton’s book has chapter(s) about opposition to the expansion of NATO.
The interviewer, Kelley Beaucar Vlahos, asks Horton: since there was so much opposition to NATO expansion within the foreign policy establishment, why did the expansion happen?
Horton replied, “Part of it was that they were just too late. The ship had already sailed.” The open letter was signed in 1997: too late.
America befriended and rebuilt its enemies Germany and Japan, but not Russia. We kicked Russia while they were down. George H.W. Bush said: we won the Cold War, we’re not gonna let Russia be equal partners with us. We will dominate them.
The neocons will say it’s a defensive alliance and repeat it 10,000 times. Chant the mantra.
The US lied about the wars in Serbia, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. All were aggressive wars. Bait and switches. In Libya the US claimed the war was to protect the women and children of Benghazi from viagra rapists (a lie). After a nine month bombing, Al Qaeda took over half the country, and slavers took over the other half. THere is still ongoing chattel slavery in Libya, because of Obama.
“Lockheed pours tons of money into political coffers. They finance all the think tanks and fund the Republicans and Democrats.” “In 1996 Newt Gingrich made it part of his contract with America to expand NATO.” Then the Democrats tried to “outflank the Republicans on the right” and promise to bring Ukraine into NATO; they did this to get Ukrainian and Polish votes in PA and IL. (Horton seems to particularly blame Clinton, because Horton is libertarian?)
Clinton’s diplomats lied to Yeltsin about “The Partnership for Peace” which was bogus. NATO will be a political alliance, and so though it won’t expand, even if it does, no danger to Russia. The diplomats said Russia and Ukraine could join the Partnership for Peace. Yeltsin was thrilled.
Later, Clinton gave a speech that they’d expand NATO, and Yeltsin was angered.
To rebuild Russia, they didn’t send free market guys from the University of Chicago, they sent neoliberals from Harvard. The result was that Russia was stripped and handed to kleptocrats. “The Harvard boys helped to install a bunch of gangsters in power.” Later, the Harvard guys bragged about it. They can’t deny it. Life expectancy plummeted in Russia to the late 50s. Crime, alcoholism, and poverty. The economy was handed over to seven gangsters.
The US-launched Balkan wars in the late 1990s, and it infuriated the Russians.
The sad thing is: the pro-Western, pro-American, pro-democracy supporters in Russia were humiliated and weakened by US aggression. “We stuck our necks for you.” The US dresses up aggressive wars and government overthrows as democracy promotion. No wonder Putin emerged.
Ambassador Warren Zimmerman admitted to the NY Times that he ruined the Lisbon Peace Deal that could have prevented almost the entire war in 1992. In 1993 When Clinton became president, there was the Vance-Owen peace plan that could have stopped the war.
“We need something for NATO to do” to justify its existence. They said it openly. Hence breaking up Yugoslavia.
“It’s all individual and institutional interests at play.” People get killed, but who cares?
The Kosovo war was a disaster that actually caused the ethnic cleansing. There was no authority to launch the war. Some people in Congress tried to stop the war but couldn’t.
After 9/11, Putin was the first to offer condolences and offered use of Russian territory (facing opposition in Moscow from his conservative opponents).
The US was backing the terrorists in Chechnya. It continued into the GWB years. Eleven of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers had fought for Bill Clinton in Bosnia rr Chechnya. Blowback from continuing anti-Russia policies (Afghanistan, Serbia, Chechnya). The FBI vetoed breaking into a terrorist’s computer before 9/11 because he w3as thought to be an ally (against Russia). The US liked the Bin Ladenites in Chechnya! Even after 9/11 they delayed looking at the laptop. Had they opened it earlier they could have prevented 9/11.
The US supported the Chechnyan rebels to stop Russia from building a pipeline through Chechnya.
Putin tells an anecdote that is believable that he said to GWB: Putin said to Clinton: We know that your CIA is backing the terrorists in Chechnya; we saw them do it. Bush said “I’ll kick their ass for you.” According to Putin, the U.S said “We’ll back whoever we want.”
As early as late 2005, the US under Bush started allying again with Al Qaadea (to attack Russia). “In other worse, we’ve backing Al Qaeda since 1979 this whole time, except for the first few years ” after 9/11.
The US supported terrorists in Syria even though Muslims terrorists perpetuated bombings in AMerica, such as the Boston Marathon bombing (Chechnyans). Putin warned: you should not back terrorists in one place, they can pop up and bite you in the butt in another place.
Russiagate was about alleged Russian interference in the US But US NGOs and NEDs meddle overseas all over the place. So Putin wants to restrict them. We shutdown RT.com and Sputnik but we criticize them for restricting NGOs.
Regime change operations by the CIA/NED are dressed up as popular revolutions but are engineered by the US A typical technique is to dispute an election result we like, citing election polls. (But, admittedly, Horton says, often both sides are cheating.) NED and Soros NEDs don’t care which side wins, they claim. Nobody believes that the US wants fair elections.
The US just wants our side to win. Horton gives examples of elections thrown by the US that installed incompetent leaders who were later kicked out. It happened twice in Ukraine, in 2004 and 2014. People accuse Horton of denying the “agency” of the Ukrainians. But the CIA poured in tons of money, etc. The most famous regime change operation installed the Shah in Iran in 1953. In Georgia the CIA brought in a French person of Georgian descent to lead Georgia. It’s just a chess game, with the people in Maidan who are pawns who think they are free but are being manipulated.
Haorton says Russiagate was all based on lies: the MAGA movement was not financed by Russia. But in regime change operations in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, it’s really true that the CIA/NED/etc is funding them. The US is angry if Russia or China tries to interfere in our elections, but we have the right to interfere in theirs.
Vlahos asked Horton whether Trump has the ability to change the trajectory with Russia. Horton says, “I have no idea.” But last time they falsely accused him (Trump) of treason. “Usurping Duchess Hillary’s rightful throne. Horton says Trump was “quite frankly, cheated in 2020, in numerous ways, but obviously, most obviously, with the Hunter Biden laptop scam that they pushed to ruin the Republicans October 2020 surprise.”
So, can the White House, the CIA and FBI, who framed Trump for treason? And they pretended to investigate him for two years with a special counsel. “And then to have him impeached for holding up an arms deal for a couple of days.”
Horton says that “With Donald Trump on foreign policy on his best day, what we have is a pale imitation of Pat Buchanan. What we’d love to see is for Pat to come and bring the troops home. End the empire. Tell the Germans, the Japanese, and the Koreans, and the Saudis, and the Israelis that they can take care of their own problems now. The American people are going to take care of ours.”
Horton doesn’t know if Trump can make major changes to foreign policy, but he can take steps on the margin, for sure. He can make peace with North Korea, Russia, and China. “There’s no reason to fight China.” And Iran too: “I say to screw the Likud Party. Donald Trump should get on a plane, his plane, Air Force One, and fly straight to Tehran.” “Why not make peace with Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China, right now, before the end of January” and then leave the next four years for building prosperity at home?
